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JazzDanceForChildren

I watched the debate shortly after it came out and I thought that most of Jon's points were pretty indefensible in a way that can't be explained through poor presentation alone. I think it takes a pretty glaring lack of foresight to supplement the argument that immigration poses an existential threat to white Americans that they are justified in opposing with the idea that we live in a post-oppression society where discrimination against any social group isn't a serious problem anymore. The latter sort of precludes the very possibility of a non-racist justification for the former. People with green eyes are a steep minority, would any reasonable person fear being subjected to the fate of being a green-eyed person in America simply because they're a minority?

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Maq

Well even him saying "Discrimination doesn't exist anymore", that's not a comment you can just throw under the rug, no matter how he tries to apologize. And as people have mentioned before, Jon has done a lot of gross and offensive shit in the past (even in the GG days) so people who give him a free pass and are just like, yeah I'll keep watching his videos, I think they're giving him too much of a pat on the back.

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Whelt
1 hour ago, 2112pk said:

Serious, good faith question here.

Did anyone NOT see all this coming after jon did an interveiw with fucking BREITBART, "Bill Kristol Renagade Jew" breitbart, "the confederate flag boats a proud heritage" breitbart.

I've been IRRECONCILABLY done with the hateful little lard since then personally, fucker's made his bed.

I didn't even know he did that, but that's pretty fuckin' bad

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pizzawave

Yeahhhhh he's kinda dead to me now that I've really looked into it.

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kingplatypus
8 hours ago, Dopply said:

Unfortunately it seems like most people willing to give Jon a pass are those who aren't hurt by his views. I couldn't imagine how fans of his work who happen to be non-white could reconcile enjoying his videos while knowing in the background he despises them. 

'Separate the art from the artist' and 'ignoring his politics' is pretty easy to do when you aren't affected by their toxic beliefs. While I don't believe in witch hunts, I think it's important not to give him a pass just because he made videos people enjoy. He said some vile shit that's not easily forgiven. He would have to work very hard to convince me and others that he is not a white supremacist, and take some large and clearly visible steps to mend the bridge he's broken with the people he disappointed. 

Honestly, reading some of the more serious posts on the JonTron subreddit is a bit heartbreaking. So many people looked up to Jon, and he just shit all over them because of this incident.

 

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King D. Supersepiroth

At this point, I don't think Jon is gonna change until one of his friends talks to him.

PBG or even Ethan would be good, but it's unlikely now.

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thapoint09

Who does he even have left at this point that 1) doesn't agree with him, and 2) would even bother?

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King D. Supersepiroth

Literally no one.

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Liebermintz

excuse me for this, but I've been reading a lot of the defenses of Jon's actions in the Livestream and the acceptance of his "clarification" on YouTube and I need to get this off my chest. I don't care if it makes me took stupid, I just want to air this all out:

I love how, in the apology video, he took a joke from Full Frontal with Samantha Bee (which is in the vein of pretty much every "haha white people trying too hard" joke everybody's made once in their life - you say you haven't made fun of it? well, let me introduce you to Jonathan Davis and Fred Durst) and actually legitimately interpreted it as proof that the mainstream media is trying to make you feel bad for being white.

problem is: where was this shit when Limp Bizkit was around? where were the people saying that we shouldn't shame Fred Durst but instead the people who took the expected potshots at how he's quite possibly the whitest rapper? why is it that Macklemore and Trump supporters, out of all people, spur this response?

and even with that said, Jon still said some Davis Aurini-level bullshit in that livestream no amount of "clarification" can do. if anything, he's trying to aim more for that sort of "race realism"/"reverse racism" bullshit that completely misses the mark regarding why racism is racism. that distinction Jon completely misses is the same distinction between why Spike Lee making fun of Sal and his family in Do the Right Thing isn't racist while Mammy, Prissy and Pork from Gone with the Wind are considered so. When you're invoking those counterarguments, you're effectively turning racism into a black and white issue and casting your enemy as the villain - that they don't deserve any humanization. It's the same bullshit that made Zoe Quinn flee from her home, the same bullshit behind why everybody thinks Anita actually said "everything is X" when she didn't even say it in the original context of the speech (she was making lighthearted fun of "newborn activists" who spend their first year calling out everything in the style of a Flobots song - i.e. without subtlety), the same bullshit why everybody on lolcow forums thinks it's fair game to publish the deadnames and exclusively misgender and deadname transgender lolcows because "they're too dumb, why should we respect their identity," etc.

why else do people on the defensive tend to think that all of the alt-right and young-conservative movements act dumb? it's because Jon's citing fucking Breitbart in talking about the media instilling white guilt, him saying all this racist crap in a livestream and halfheartedly "clarifying" himself in a video that uses a Samantha Bee joke that I've heard a hundred times before (and done better) as evidence of why reverse racism exists. it's because the people willing to actually cover this movement in a positive light are usually connected to the woman who shut down the Equal Rights Amendment, a couple of homegrown white nationalists who claim that they're not sexist because they go to strip clubs, guys who legitimately think an openly gay man and a Democratic chairman are kidnapping thousands of kids in D.C. and raping them inside the lock-in freezer at a pizza joint, Swedish bodybuilders who unironically talk about how evil Jews are while killing hundreds of civilians in Skyrim, trolls who claim that Pepe isn't racist but use him in their avatars and their display names while posting coon songs and deadnaming every trans celebrity. 

you think that with that membership, people are going to think you're sane and rational?

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Whelt

The whole white guilt thing is confusing to me. If you're capable of self-reflection, you won't have to feel guilty about anything. To become that defensive about it just makes it seem like you actually do feel guilty.

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zoc

I got a huge kick out of a lot of Jons' content, whether on his original channel or Game Grumps (though I can agree that it's not for everyone) so hearing about all of this right now is incredibly disappointing. Even with an explicit apology it's going to take a lot for me to forget about what he's said, much less forgive it. Saying stuff like that about discrimination/immigration and whatever is basically grounds for a massive uproar when spoken about like how he did and despite him acknowledging his comments and deciding to just stick to his game stuff I really don't think it suddenly gives the whole situation a giant band-aid. A lot of people are angry about this and will be for a long time, and regardless of the circumstances I really think he should have known what he was getting himself into.

Me personally? I'm not angry, so much as just sad. Sad that all of this is happening. I still love his videos but it's undoubtedly going to feel awkward watching them :/

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kingplatypus

I wanted to point out as well, that Mic video Jon pointed to in his clarification video, the one with the clickbait tag "Are all white people racist? Yes they are.", wasn't actually about how all white people are racist. It's an incredibly stupid tag, yes, but the video itself is actually about racial biases and how everyone has them, not just white people.

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The Pope

I wonder if this will make him go "You know, maybe instead of apologizing for the way my message came across I should do some soul-searching on whether my beliefs are wrong" or if he's just going to think "those sjw cucks free speech is being impeded".

Something tells me in the back of my throat it'll be the latter, but hey, who knows. Maybe the boy can learn.

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trepmaws

Was wondering if we'd see anything else big happen to him as result of this (other than the other Normal Boots folks taking a big step away from him). Guess that aforementioned ultimatum is playing out after all.

3 hours ago, The Pope said:

I wonder if this will make him go "You know, maybe instead of apologizing for the way my message came across I should do some soul-searching on whether my beliefs are wrong" or if he's just going to think "those sjw cucks free speech is being impeded".

Something tells me in the back of my throat it'll be the latter, but hey, who knows. Maybe the boy can learn.

I dunno, this seems like it would fit pretty well into the kind of narrative he was spouting. Given that and the fact his video a few days ago offered no actual apology for what he said ("I'm gonna stop talking" is not the same as "I shouldn't have said that"), it wouldn't surprise me if this just makes him dig in harder. 

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