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Episode VIII: The Last Star Wars Thread

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Deaniac

I...still haven't seen Solo yet. Rouge One kinda tipped me off from getting too excited about the spin-off movies. There were a few memorable bits and pieces, but it was generally boring and I have no desire to see it again any time soon. Judging by the movie's unfortunate box office performance, it goes to show that even Star Wars isn't infallible from.

I wonder if this will affect Episode 9 or any proposed spin-off movies going forward. Better yet, I wonder if The Last Jedi's divided critical consensus will play a role at all.

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Nozdordomu

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TVBForever

Midnight's Edge made an interesting case study as to why Solo is flopping.

 

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Robotic
4 hours ago, Deaniac said:

Better yet, I wonder if The Last Jedi's divided critical consensus will play a role at all.

This is an assertion I've seen brought up around the internet for awhile now, so I'm going to use this comment to talk about it.

The Last Jedi was very well received by critics. It had a 91% on Rotten Tomatoes, with an average score of around 8/10, both slightly lower than The Force Awakens. Audience scores done by scientific survey, rather than by open polling, also showed that general audiences tended to agree with the critics (it got an "A" from CinemaScore, the same as The Force Awakens).

And yet, it feels like the view one receives from the general internet geist seems to be that the movie was extremely controversial. I mean, that's what I thought for awhile, and I had to go back and look at the statistics. But by all objective measures, it wasn't. There's a screaming-mad minority of people who are so loud and overpowering about their opinions that they absolutely dominate discussions regarding TLJ to the point that people now think the movie wasn't a huge success or well-liked, even though it absolutely was in both regards. As mentioned before, it was almost identically scored to TFA, and I don't remember nearly the same backlash to that movie when it came out, and especially now. 

When I see a lot of the negative discussion regarding TLJ that isn't blatantly sexist and racist (and to be fair, the people riding that bus were singing the same song about TFA, so I guess they're consistent), it generally revolves around absurd misunderstandings of the movie that should have been accounted for by simply paying attention. I've seen some really crazy claims about the film trying to discredit it, that only lead me to wonder if these people even watched it. And at this point, after seeing it again, I'm leaning towards "no, they didn't." The best critique of this film I've seen came from Hideo fucking Kojima of all people, who made a really good argument that the movie merely postures as a big change for the series, without actually doing anything with real impact, and how this mirrors activist causes in the real word today. I don't fully agree with him, but I think he's partially on to something, and besides, it was a pretty nuanced view coming from a particular angle involving actual analysis of the films themes and character dynamics, and not just "Rose is worse than Jar-Jar Binks because she didn't let Finn kill himself, also Porgs ruined Star Wars."

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trepmaws

Eh, I'd argue Rose's actions made some amount of sense given her immediate fangirling over Finn, though the moment in question is held back by the fact the events leading up to it didn't seem to establish the chemistry between the two of them well enough to not make it seem a bit on the forced side of things. Of course, I think whether or not the turn of events goes over well in the long run will depend on whether Finn reciprocates the feelings or is just like "okay, that's awkward...so how's Rey doing?"

Hell, maybe the lasting impact of TLJ and the spin-off movies will be to bring people's expectations of Star Wars back down to Earth a bit? Clearly the franchise is having growing pains as (a) Disney figures how to turn it into a Marvel-style cash cow with a ton of movies over a few years, and (b) people realize that, in reality, these movies are never going to be the amazing explosions of awesome that decades of cinematic blue-balls led them to expect. Maybe Solo will prove to be the turning point on these fronts.

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Doom

I actually think Rogue One has some merit, but after seeing The Last Jedi in the theatre I kind of don't want to throw money at anything Star Wars-related anymore out of principle. The fact that Solo seems to be getting a relatively lukewarm response when every other Star Wars movie released in the past three years met with huge box office success and was showered in praise pretty much confirms my idea that I should steer clear from this film.

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Whelt

I'm still firmly on the side of enjoying The Last Jedi. I guess I can see how it would have been controversial to some, but it wasn't for me. I just liked it. My only real complaint is that the whole subplot with Finn and Rose running around in Casino Night Zone kind of hurt the pacing. The plot isn't airtight, but no Star Wars movie really is.

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Tug
On 6/16/2018 at 11:44 PM, Robotic said:

Audience scores done by scientific survey, rather than by open polling, also showed that general audiences tended to agree with the critics (it got an "A" from CinemaScore, the same as The Force Awakens).

This is interesting because most of the people I’ve talked to have shared a lukewarm or mixed opinion of The Last Jedi.  For different reasons, people I know irl of all kinds of demographics had varying “I liked it, but...” takes on the movie.  “It was all over the place, it was cynical, it was bland, etc.”  So in my experience the word of mouth of TLJ was that it was a middling movie and I do think that had an effect on people’s enthusiasm for Solo and Star Wars as a whole.

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Robotic
5 hours ago, Tug said:

This is interesting because most of the people I’ve talked to have shared a lukewarm or mixed opinion of The Last Jedi.  For different reasons, people I know irl of all kinds of demographics had varying “I liked it, but...” takes on the movie.  “It was all over the place, it was cynical, it was bland, etc.”  So in my experience the word of mouth of TLJ was that it was a middling movie and I do think that had an effect on people’s enthusiasm for Solo and Star Wars as a whole.

Right, but you're a certain person with a certain group of acquaintances that might select specifically for people who had reservations about the film. That's why it's important to acknowledge these more broad studies, because it's easy to lose track of the larger cultural context.

 

Also, I should make it clear that studies like CinemaScore do not indicate a films quality by any means; for one example, Transformers 3 also got an A, and not a single one of the Bayformers movies has scored lower than a B+. The Transformers films are clearly well loved, even though I don't know a single person I regularly talk to who likes them.

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Biodegradable
16 minutes ago, Robotic said:

The Transformers films are clearly well loved, even though I don't know a single person I regularly talk to who likes them.

Because all the people who love those films are in China if their international box office numbers have anything to say on the matter.

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The Pope

Finally got around to seeing Solo.

It wasn't too bad! Wasn't a masterpiece, but was a fun little flick. I probably won't remember most of it in a week, but I enjoyed myself.

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MAZZ0Murder

I plan to see Solo this week. I apparently learned

Spoiler

That Darth Maul... or rather just Maul by this point... pops up somewhere? Should be interesting.

 

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